Comments for Seeking ways to confront torture at http://pres-outlook.net , comment 1 to 3 out of 3 comments http://pres-outlook.net Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:15:03 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://pres-outlook.net/news-and-analysis/1-news-a-analysis/7142.html#comment-3871 You know when I reflect on my 23 years serving in the military and the places I have been, Iraq, Gitmo, Turkey, Liberia, Nigeria, Israel, and the 23 other nations I have spent time in I do not recall seeing Eric Fair, Mr. Hunsinger, PPF, or any other functionary of the church. I do not recall their time with me at the refugee feeding stations, medical tents, or front lines. I do not recall their presence when the Second Marine Division put themeslves and their physical bodies between IEDs and the schools and clinics we were constructing. Be that as it may. Maybe they had a conference to attend, or maybe Stony Point needed a fresh coat of paint. Then again I forgot that I was a under the spell of Nazi ideology according to Mr. Hunsinger. I feel so much better now. - peter gregory Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/news-and-analysis/1-news-a-analysis/7142.html#comment-3872 I served five years in the US Army, two as a municipal police officer, and another three in service of The Department of Defense (including two trips to Iraq). For my trouble a fellow citizen (and fellow Christian no less) has the audacity to label me a member of the 'lunatic fringe'. I don't agree with much of what was said at this conference, and I (and others) had the courage to say so at times. But we never treated our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ with the disrespect apparent in Mr. Norman's post. I suspect such reckless vitriol is the source of many of our problems in the church today, where our disagreements serve as justification to treat one another in any way we choose. It is not unlike the anger and frustration that dominated so many of us who crossed that line into abusive interrogation in early 2004. I wonder how the inquisitors would have felt about Mr. Norman's suggestion that the best way to end torture is simply to become Christian? A biblical scholar I am not, but even a cursory reading of The New Testament is enough for me to see that the ministry of Jesus Christ took place amongst the lunatic fringe. "Illogical pronouncements like these, so far out of the mainstream as to be irrelevant, are easy to dismiss". I wonder who would have made such statements in 1st Century Jerusalem: Jesus or his accusers? Statements such as those made by Mr. Norman help me to see that however difficult this path may be, and no matter how reluctant I am a times to stay on it, and no matter how radical it feels in light of my conservative background, it is the right one to follow. - Eric Fair Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/news-and-analysis/1-news-a-analysis/7142.html#comment-3869 Any chance of being a witness to Christ in addressing this issue is lost in the nonsensical gibberish of the lunatic fringe which gathered together to reinforce their collective misconceptions. Comparing the USA of 2008 to pre-war NAZI Germany is incredibly uninformed and downright irresponsible. (I would hazard to guess that the majority of those who gathered plan on voting in our free and open upcoming elections, and most likely voted for the current majority of both the house and senate which govern our country.) Hunsinger's belief that there is 'an ideology of nationalism' and some 'cryptic form of racism' further belie his lack of understanding of our democratic country. Mark Douglas's assessment that torture isn't really intended to get information but is 'to gain control of the social body' and "to preserve the fallacy of our own invulnerability" is creepy psycho-babble at best. Illogical pronouncements like these, so far out of the mainstream as to be irrelevant, are easy to dismiss. Its a shame that they take themselves seriously, because with logic like that, no one else can. A far more effective message would be the simple assertion that 'Christ and Christianity do not condone torture - therefore become Christian.' But it is doubtful that a gathering such as the Columbia seminar would favor an approach like that, because it begins to look a little like evangelism. If we evangelize our nation's enemies we will do far more to end torture than we will by making nonsensical pronouncements full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing. - Forrest Norman Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:00:00 +0100