Comments for To campus or not to campus? at http://pres-outlook.net , comment 1 to 10 out of 10 comments http://pres-outlook.net Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:51:48 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://pres-outlook.net/opinion/editorials/6768.html#comment-3789 I think there is some really outstanding work going on in campus ministry in this nation, work being carried out by really competent PCUSA campus ministry professionals and Presbyterian church members. It isn't always 'big' in appearance. Some of it is happening in an ecumenical setting. It takes on many different forms. There are many, many small group campus ministries, that even may look like small circles of friends, that are sending out faithful disciples into the world. In Shane Claiborne's book, The Irresistible Revolution, there is a chapter entitled: 'Growing Smaller and Smaller, Until We take over the world'. In that chapter, Claiborne talks about how the Christian gospel doesn't always draw a crowd. He notes that people have always hoped that the realm of God would come in triumphal, shock and awe greatness, but Jesus especially resisted the tempat! ion to bring it on that way. I have been tempted to focus on digging up and throwing more money and pizza and amplifiers at my ministry at Radford to make it look more like the big, non-denominational ministry on that campus, but then I meet a student who is a refugee from that other ministry and I am reminded of what I am trying to do here. That student is not seeking easy answers that don't mesh with a challenging world, or crowds of only good-looking young people to follow. That student is choosing a less apparent, not-so-easy, but open and accepting pathway of faithfulness and service and hope for a real world. If the Outlook articles about campus ministry do one good and helpful thing for our 'faithful remnant' of good campus ministries, perhaps they will call attention to the real problem. Obviously, our denomination has not made campus ministry a priority in terms of funding and support. I am in a part-time ministry, renting spac e for a couple of weekly meetings in another denomination's building. I spend the other half of my working life in another inistry, mostly because I am called that way, but also because I cannot support myself with a part-time job. When I am at my other job, I am not doing campus ministry. There is definitely enough ministry to do at Radford University for at least one, full-time PCUSA campus minister. I was amazed and gratified when I went to the Montreat Collegiate Conference, that 800 college students wanted to come together for some un-apologetically PCUSA, thought-provoking, inspiring, challenging, and FUN programming. Obviously, we can do this stuff, and do it well, and with more funding and support and exposure, we can do more of it! I suspect many of those 800 students will look for PCUSA congregations wherever they end up post-college. It that's evangelism, praise! be to God! - Cathy McCollough Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/opinion/editorials/6768.html#comment-3788 By now you have had some mail in defense of those whose campus ministry in 2008 is not 'in a shambles.' Rather than join that chorus, I feel led to thank you for your timely challenge to the PC(USA) presbyteries (who else?) to rise to the opportunity at hand, to recognize and to support new leadership and initiatives, in higher education ministry. You cite the three factors needed to bring our campus mission up to past vitality and to meet present expectations: a focused vision, effective leaders, and an investment of funds. You suggest that we do have the funds to expand campus ministries if we so choose. It does, indeed, turn on whether we will make it a top priority. The five PC(USA) presbyteries in North Carolina have joined in an effort to reach that goal. We share a common vision, we have identified leadership in each presbytery, and we are proposing the means by which we might increase, significantly, the funding of established and new ministries. I believe Presbyterian students, and their motivated mentors, are looking to their Church to seize the time! It is an opportune and hope filled hour. - George Gunn Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/opinion/editorials/6768.html#comment-3783 There once was a pastor in a middle size, yet solid, church in a beach town east of Orlando. He, too, wanted to involve the youth of his church members in spititual exercises. Being a rather atheletic type , he decided to tell the youth groups that he could do more push-ups then anyone...and if anyone could do more push-ups than he...he would give them a free pass into Heaven...forever. But alas, noone could do more than he, and many of the younger ones were sore afraid of their future fate. Being a compassionate man he relented. ...so he told them of a way that they could go to Heaven without doing push-ups. I don't recall the rest because I moved away but I do know that many a teen obtained their free passes and that the pastor was so well respected that they reccommended that he be in charge of communicating with all church members worldwide. - John Odde Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/opinion/editorials/6768.html#comment-3781 I'd like to call out a few very specific portions of Mr. Harberer's article because I believe they deserve repeating: '..the millennial generation wants more than abundant life.' '...they are less self-absorbed than their parents' generation.' 'They're not into rebellion against, but re-invention of, the world around them.' 'They want to bring real healing and reconciliation and justice and mercy to the world.' I thank GOD for this every day. I do so because I AM a campus minister at a large, secular, state university. I do so because I AM in the trenches with these students, living with them, eating with them, ministering to and with them, serving others along side them. I do so, because I too am a product of the 'Accept Christ and receive abundant life' movement. I do so, because I continue to find hope and reconciliation day-in and day-out in the truth that God draws us back even when we set our heart and energies on worldly things. The reality of campus ministry today is far different than it was ten years ago. Let alone twenty or thirty. I'm tired of hearing from former campus ministers and chaplains 'who've been there' and seem to have all the answers, based of course on 'the way we've always done it.' You simply don't get it. I realize I risk sounding arrogant and abrasive when I say so, but you don't. Ask any campus minister that's in the trenches with students today, specifically those NOT at a Presbyterian institution, and I am confident they'll share my viewpoint. If those same experienced and retired professionals took one day to spend with college students and talk with them about Christ, and the message of Christ, they would see just how different, and how amazing these students are. And they just might also see why they are so disenchanted with our church today. With all due respect to Mr. Gregory - something very much due to someone with a long career as a chaplain in any branch of our military - I could not disagree with him more. While the young men and women in the military might be a campus-like demographic relative to their age, they live in a completely separate and emotionally different world. Comparing the ministry of a military chaplain to that of a university campus minister or chaplain is like comparing sticks to stones. They couldn't be any more different. Imagine a PC(USA) that was clear and unequivocal in presenting her doctrine, theology, message, and creeds... Imagine a PC(USA) that upholds the sacramental promise we make at every baptism (and reaffirm at confirmations or affirm at professions of faith)... Imagine a PC(USA) that isn't hemorrhaging because of schism and turmoil... It's time. It's time to answer a simple question. Do we want to be the church we wish to see always moving towards the heart of God, or would we rather continue down the destructive path of ideological battles and set our heart and energies on worldy things? I for one, vote for a church that is moving towards the heart of God. There is much to be learned from our brothers and sisters within the PCA (RUF), UMC (WESLEY), ECUSA (CANTERBURY), and Parish organizations (Crusade, InterVarsity, Navigators, etc.). But I digress. I'd like to end my thoughts by quoting John R. Richardson - from his article in this same issue. 'The single greatest mission field facing the PC(USA) in this next century is the college campus. If we, as a Church, are faithful to the one sacramental promise that we make, if we really are good stewards of that which God has given us, then one day we might begin to see the PC(USA) transformed into all that God has ever hoped and called for her to be.' In Christ's love, DB - DAN BOLES Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/opinion/editorials/6768.html#comment-3775 As one who spent the last 23 years of professional life as a Navy Chaplain working with a campus like demographic, (18-24 year olds make up 86% of the active force), one is careful never to reduce ministry and message to the 'lowest common denominator' of spirituality and faith. As if one can say all things to all people at all times, affirming all things at the same time. You end up saying very little indeed, and standing for even less. People, young and not so young, yearn for the basic questions of life; Who am I? What is my purpose in life? Am I loved by God? What direction and purpose does my life have? Those people or groups that provide, or at least witness, to those issues will thrive and have success, those that do not will suffer and die. Young folks can smell out the phoney and un-authentic 10 miles away. And for all those on the Left and Right that see campus ministry as their own little ideological battleground. Grow-up and get a life. It is not about you. You are really not that important, and no one cares about your personal agendas. It is the cup of water to the thirsty, a loaf of bread to those who hunger, and a hand to hold when one is hurt. Leave your baggage at the door, or go home. From the looks of things in the PCUSA, the majority have seemed to have choosen the latter. - peter gregory Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/opinion/editorials/6768.html#comment-3774 To hear college students worship and sing praise to God should be nothing but encouraging. Young people are interested in the Gospel of God found in Jesus Christ and as propounded by the full counsel of the the Word of God. They are disinterested in a watered-down version that increasingly accommodates the world, the flesh, and the devil. The PCA is clear and unequivocal in presenting their doctrine and message; the PCUSA is fuzzy and prevaricating in theirs. Mr. Haberer infers that the messages are they same. I would suggest that they are not. And young people know the difference. Charles F. Burge www.layman.org - Charles Burge Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/opinion/editorials/6768.html#comment-3771 Dear Mr. Haberer: You fail to realize that our denomination is inherently incapable of campus ministry. Were we to undertake the ministry, the first test would be to tone down the Jesus message so that we do not offend other religious. The second step would be to install grammar police so that we don't accidentally use the male pronoun to refer to the deity. (Maybe on campus some of those alternate phrases for the Trinity--sun, moon and stars, or whatever--would work.) Thirdly, we would have to embrace all sorts of theologies in order to prove our inclusiveness--we do not want to stifle the creativity of the young. By the time we finished with all that, there would be little time to focus on our central message. Other denominations, like the PCA, do not have our hangups, and while there are many other reasons why I do not belong to other denominations, the simple realization that Jesus is the center of the message puts them light years ahead of us in reaching out to college students. We are more inclined to pour our funds into the Washington office's efforts to promote the agenda of the Democratic party. That is apparently where Jesus would have us spend our energies. - George Taylor Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/opinion/editorials/6768.html#comment-3770 You've done it again. Written another fine editorial that our church needs to heed. As one who spent 35 years of ministry either directly in campus ministry or in churches on or adjacent to college and university campuses, I could not agree more with your comments. There is a whole new generation out there ready and even eager to be challenged with the Word. We cannot afford to pass by on the other side. Barrie - J. Barrie Shepherd Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/opinion/editorials/6768.html#comment-3769 Thanks to Jack Haberer for lifting up the importance of campus ministry, something dear to my heart since I have just retired after 17+ years as Presbyterian(USA) Campus Minister at Wake Forest University and Pastor of Trinity Church, Winston-Salem. Jack is so right about the Presbyterian Church In American making campus ministry a priority. While I was 1/4 time on campus while mostly pastoring a local church, PCA campus ministry Reformed University Fellowship(RUF) has a full time campus minister and two full time interns. So they touch many students at Wake and have been valuable colleagues. Our PCM at Wake Forest provides an alternative to RUF, Campus Crusade for Christ, Inter-Varsity and other more fundamental Christian groups. Through our weekly suppers provided by local churches, open-minded discussion Bible study and prayer, Montreat conferences, and service trips to Mexico and USA hurricane flood relief, we reach students who want to take the Bible seriously without necessarily taking it literally. We affirm that God calls both women and men to ordained ministry, and at least nine of our women and men grads have gone on to seminary and professional ministry in the church. We partner with the University Chaplain Tim Auman to provide weekly worship on campus, and we encourage students to worship in local congregations. We seek to serve faculty and staff as well as students. ! Campus ministry has blessed Trinity Church with students to enrich our music and worship, to help with our LOGOS youth ministry, and PCM has helped our congregation grow 50% over the last dozen and a half years. Imagine what a difference Presbyterian(USA) campus ministry could make if our denomination really made it a priority! - Stewart Ellis Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/opinion/editorials/6768.html#comment-3761 I was on a college campus when I discovered that Jesus was seeking me. It was through the ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. There was also a campus ministry at the same time. Campus Crusade was Christ centered. I never heard the name of Jesus mentioned in the campus ministry. It was focused only on social justice issues and a hang out for anyone who care about socail justice. I know that Campus Crusade has grown in concern for issues of justice. I not sure campus ministries on college campuses have grown in their focus on Jesus. Evangelical Christians are much more concerned about social issues today than 35 years ago. Are the social justice ministries more concerned about Jesus today than they were 35 years ago? - kavin rossman Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:00:00 +0100