Comments for Autumn of discontent: Churches, presbyteries debate property, ordination options at http://pres-outlook.net , comment 1 to 6 out of 6 comments http://pres-outlook.net Sat, 06 Sep 2008 11:47:11 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://pres-outlook.net/news-and-analysis/1-news-a-analysis/2956.html#comment-2777 Really interesting. I've been told by our Presbytery that the PUP report strengthens the ordination standards. Seems that Mr. Kirkpatrick is mighty worried about Presbyteries voting to uphold them. Could be my Presbytery hasn't been upfront with me or our Session concerning PUP. Thanks, Marty Ducote - Martin Ducote Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/news-and-analysis/1-news-a-analysis/2956.html#comment-2681 'To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands: 'I know your works, your toil, and your patient endurance ... I also know that you are enduring patiently and bearing up for the sake of my name ... But I have this against you, you have abandoned your first love.' (Revelation 2.1-4) These are words the PC(USA) needs to hear and conisder. Each of these stories speaks to the truth that we have lost our first love, our love for each other, and have fallen in love with our property and our polity. In nearly every case in which a particular congregation requests to leave the denomination the first issue PC(USA)Presbyteries, the stated clerk, and others address is property. Eventually, after several meetings someone from the Presbytery in question will suggest the Presbetery's chief concern is not the property - but those who want to remain with the PC(USA)and who may not have been given the opportunity to do so. If this is so why isn't the first issue addressed? I think John the Prophet has the answer - we have lost our first love, our love for each other, and fallen in love with our property and our polity. 'Remember then from what you have fallen: repent and do the works you did at first.' - Tony Palubicki Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/news-and-analysis/1-news-a-analysis/2956.html#comment-2675 So, the result of the PUP task force so far seems to be that more of us will be bringing charges against and challenging others of us in the church courts. Does anybody really think that this is what peace and unity looks like? - David Horner Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/news-and-analysis/1-news-a-analysis/2956.html#comment-2669 Leslie, thanks for the overview of what has been happening in the church. This will provide a great service to lay people who take time to read it. I had been trying to track events but you have done an excellent job so I will send people who ask to your page. pastorjohn@crossroadspc.org - john pavelko Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/news-and-analysis/1-news-a-analysis/2956.html#comment-2670 This excellent summary makes me think of two things. First, if the PUP is 'fixed' by PJC action or the next GA, we still have the problem! It will take the removal of the GA Staff managers before we can have our church back again! Second, this will end most building programs - I would not want to give to a building that is going to be owned by Cliff Kirkpatrick.That is a new insight for me. - Kermit Gay Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.net/news-and-analysis/1-news-a-analysis/2956.html#comment-2672 So Mr. Kirkpatrick is concerned about governing bodies exceeding their authority. The shoe, as they say, is on the other foot. That's kind of what people on the other side of the issue have thought about the 217th General Assembly and about what it was apparently granting to ordaining bodies - permission to exceed their authority and defy constitutional standards for ordination. But the real issue, of course, is that some in the PC(USA) are trying to exceed the one authority to which we should all be subject: the clear witness of Scripture, as presented without the benefit of the cut and paste redactionists. - Darwin Smith Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:00:00 +0100